Hartmut Welker Interview with Bruce Duffie . . . . . . . . .

Heldenbariton Hartmut Welker

A Conversation with Bruce Duffie

Hartmut Welker, born October 27, 1941 in Velbert, is a German operatic bass-baritone. Before he decided to study singing, he had learned and practiced the profession of toolmaker.

At the age of 28, he began studying singing at the Hochschule für Musik und Tanz Köln with Else Bischof. He made his stage debut in 1974 at the Theater Aachen in the role of Monterone in Verdi's Rigoletto, stepping in for an ill singer. From 1975 to 1977, he was engaged as a chorus singer at the Aachen Opera House, where he also performed small solo parts. He made his official debut there in 1977 as Renato in Verdi's Un ballo in maschera. He worked there until 1980, and was subsequently engaged for three years at the Badisches Staatstheater Karlsruhe, to which he later belonged as a permanent guest. During these years he had numerous guest appearances in major opera houses around the world, such as the Metropolitan Opera in New York City, the Teatro alla Scala in Milan, the Royal Opera House Covent Garden in London, the Opéra Bastille in Paris, the Vienna State Opera, Berlin State Opera and Hamburg State Opera, as well as the Bayreuth Festival, the Salzburg Festival, the Bregenz Festival and the Edinburgh Festival.

Welker was a member of the Hamburgische Staatsoper since 1982, the Vienna State Opera since 1985 and the Deutsche Oper Berlin since 1987. He also has performed in concerts and television productions.

Hartmut Welker is the father of the director Sebastian Welker.

In January of 1987, Hartmut Welker was at Lyric Opera of Chicago for Barnaba in La Gioconda. The cast included Ghena Dimitrova, Giuliano Ciannella, Alexandrina Milcheva, Mignon Dunn/Diane Curry, and Paul Plishka. Bruno Bartoletti conducted. Welker had previously been heard with the Chicago Symphony [November, 1984] in their concert performances of the original version of Boris Godunov with Ruggero Raimondi, Lucia Valentini-Terrani, Philip Langridge, and Samuel Ramey, conducted by Claudio Abbado. [Names which are links refer to my interviews elsewhere on my website.]
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During the run of Gioconda, Welker graciously agreed to sit down with me for an interview. My thanks go to Ann Vickstrom, secretary to the General Director Ardis Krainik, for translating during the conversation.

As we were setting up to record, I asked him about his vocal category, and he responded that he is a Heldenbariton . . . . .

Bruce Duffie:   What exactly is a Heldenbariton?

Hartmut Welker:   It is a male German category for the heavy German repertory especially.

BD:   The German heroic repertoire?

Welker: Yes.

BD:   Is it the character that makes it heroic, or the vocal line that makes it heroic?

Welker: For this heroic repertoire, you must have a big voice. An Italian baritone is a little bit lighter than a Heldenbariton. Wagner is power all the time, roles like Telramund in Lohengrin, The Dutchman, and also Pizarro in Fidelio! It’s the same here with Barnaba in La Gioconda.   For me, Barnaba is stronger, a heavier role, than singing Macbeth!

BD:   [Surprised] Really??? [Vis-à-vis the recording shown at left, see my interviews with Tom Krause, and Christoph von Dohnányi.]

Welker: Yes. It is not a bel canto role. He’s a bad character. He’s more of an evil, angry person. For me, the Italian role is more of a baritone, but it is a difficult Italian role. One can sing Rigoletto or Macbeth more beautifully, but not this Barnaba. The Italian baritone roles are more singable and more lyrical, and don’t have as much of the evil character in them. Barnaba has much less of a singable kind of a thing because it is not a bel canto role. It’s basically always having to be right there with the power.

BD:   When Wagner, or any of the others, were asking for all of this power, were they asking too much from the human voice?

Welker: If the German baritone sang with an Italian technique, then you would be able to sing the other repertory just as long.

BD:   So it’s all the technique, then rather than the voice itself?

Welker: Sure, yes.

BD:   Knowing your voice and your feelings for the characters, how do you decide which roles you will select to sing, and which roles you will decline?

Welker: What I sing I must feel! Claudio Abbado talked to me three or four years ago and said that I must sing Wozzeck! I said I don’t sing Wozzeck. He looked at me and made a face and asked why, and I said I can sing it later, when I am ten years older. When I’m fifty or fifty-five, then maybe I’ll sing Wozzeck, but not before. Also, I don’t like Lulu. I don’t feel it. When I think about it, the Flying Dutchman is maybe my best role. I last sang it two months ago in concert with the Philadelphia Orchestra led by Riccardo Muti. When I sing it, I’m actually the Dutchman, and when I sing Barnaba, I am Barnaba! I go on and that’s myself.

BD:   Then you become the character, rather than just portraying the character?

Welker: Yes. I have to feel the character, not just portray him. I didn’t know this opera before this year. Bruno Bartoletti rang me from New York while I was singing Die Frau ohne Schatten in Milan. He asked me if I could sing Barnaba, and I said I’d never heard of him or the role! I said I’d look at the score, and once I had seen the music and the character, I said I’d do it. The character appealed to me. I didn’t really concern myself about it, and I didn’t really know about the character until I was actually on stage for rehearsals here. I didn’t feel the good feeling about it until I really got into actually doing it. Now, all the performances keep growing a little bit more.

BD:   If you were asked to sing Barnaba six months from now, you would feel better about it?

Welker: Yes, I would hope so.

BD:   Once you have learned the notes, how long does it take to get into the soul a character?

Welker: I know what you mean... The more and more you do with each performance deepens the understanding. It never ceases.

BD:   Is there more depth in some of the characters than in others?

Welker: Admittedly, in Italian it’s very hard for me because I’m not very familiar with the language. I have to write everything down, and translate everything word for word. But in German it comes very naturally to me, so I automatically know what to do because I feel it, and I know how.

BD:   That’s part of being an artist!

Welker: Yes.

BD:   Do the German composers tend to put more into their characters than the Italians?
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Welker: There are similarities between the two. For instance, in Fidelio there are similarities to be found with Pizarro and Scarpia. In the Italian repertory there are many more of these evil nasty men, and it’s easier to portray them than in the German repertory. In the Italian repertory, the music very much underscores that, so it’s easier to portray them. Pizarro is all on full power, very direct, and not bel canto. In the Italian repertoire, it’s more insinuated. The German repertoire is much more direct. So, when you have that full force going on all the time, it’s hard to be able to project any kind of insinuating quality of somebody who is evil and malicious. Barnaba is the worst, and there also exists Iago and characters like that, but it just doesn’t carry over as far as that kind of portrayal in the German repertory.

BD:   Is the Italian music, the Italian style, more subtle all the way round?

Welker: The Italian repertoire? No! The Italian repertoire is not as clear and direct as the German, such as Wagner. In Verdi, such as The Masked Ball or Macbeth, and here in La Gioconda are very difficult. The Italians always have got a dance movement to it. They also have a lot of standard things that they steal from each other. Wagner is always very original. That’s a kind of harsh way of saying it but that’s what it comes down to.

BD:   Did Wagner write well for the voice?

Welker: If you sing it a lot, then he did. You need to be very healthy to sing Wagner. Some people go in there and feel like they have to be extra for the role, and blow themselves up, in a sense. They overdo it.

BD:   Is Verdi easier to sing?

Welker: Yes. In Verdi, the orchestra supports you, and in Wagner you have to sing over it all the time.

* * * * *

BD:   Let’s talk about a few of your roles. Do you like playing evil characters?

Welker: Yes! [Everyone bursts out laughing]

BD:   [With a wink] Are you evil?

Welker: Myself, yes! [More laughter]. Over the years, it is coming. It’s not more difficult for me. As time has passed, it has become easier and easier, whether it’s Wagner, or Verdi. I don’t sing too much Italian repertoire. I sing all the time German repertory, so over the years I sang The Dutchman, Telramund, Pizarro...

BD:   Wotan?

Welker: No, no, I’m not Wotan. I sing Alberich. I like it. I don’t like Wotan.

BD:   Really? Why?

Welker: Wotan just stands there and sings, whereas Alberich moves around. I like action on the stage. I don’t like concert performances. When you come on the [opera] stage, you move and sing. The audience makes the difference with their response. In a concert performance, you sit, and you always have to face the public. You don’t get a chance to be on your own with your colleagues. They’re sitting there, and you’re sitting here, and there is no confrontation. It’s also very nice when I get the chance to cry on stage in roles like The Dutchman, or Kurwenal in Tristan, or Pizarro and Barnaba.

BD:   What kind of a man is Kurwenal?

Welker: Kurwenal is more than Tristan’s brother. Kurwenal is maybe more of a father figure. Tristan and Kurwenal are the same. They are as one. They have complete trust in each other, and they’re really pretty much the same person. They’re under each other’s skin, and there’s so much of a bond between them.

BD:   It is at all like Don Giovanni and Leporello?

Welker: No, I don’t think so. It is more personal between Tristan and Kurwenal. It is more than Giovanni and Leporello. The feeling is much more in earnest, and very deep. It is much more serious.

BD:   Is Isolde a threat to that relationship?

Welker: No. They have a playful kind of relationship, so they are a little couple in a way, but it is not in earnest or serious. It’s a bit of a playful kind of relationship and not that serious. He knows that Isolde had saved Tristan once, so now Kurwenal brings her back after he is wounded. Brangäne is Isolde’s confidante, and Kurwenal is Tristan’s confidante. There really isn’t anything there because of their servant-master relationship.

BD:   Kurwenal is a servant for Tristan, and Brangäne is the servant for Isolde, so if Tristan and Isolde had been able to get together, would Kurwenal and Brangäne have gotten together?

Welker: This would not have taken place unless he had taken the magic potion. Tristan is a very true servant of King Marke, so it wouldn’t have taken place.
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BD: Let’s move onto the Dutchman. Is he a man, or a spirit?

Welker: I see him as a man, and he comes back every seven years. Then he can drink and he can live and love.   When he’s on land, he’s a man.

BD:   What about the seven years when he’s on the sea?

Welker: He does become a spirit, and then he dematerializes. He’s thrown onto the land, and when he’s on the land he literally wakes up. So when he wakes up, he knows that’s when the seven years are up. For those seven years he lives a ghost. So, he also experiences things, and he knows what’s going on during the seven years, but I assume it is not as a man.

BD:   Is this because he must suffer during those seven years?

Welker: Yes, he suffers. He wants to die.

BD:   Do you prefer singing the opera in one piece or three?

Welker: Straight through without an interval. If you have an interval, then you lose tension and continuity. Muti had done it in the original way without any intervals.

BD:   Is it too stressful not to have any breaks?

Welker: Oh no, it is not too much. The first act is all right, the second is all right, and the third act has a break from the singing, so it is not too much for the Dutchman and for Senta. But when you perform it without any breaks, it’s very long. The first act has the monologue, then the second act has the duet with Senta, and then the third act is hard! But it’s very nice. It’s a wonderful, wonderful part. I love him.

BD:   Are you a ‘Dutchman’?

Welker: Yes, yes, yes! I was at sea for four years. That’s the reason I like to sing the Dutchman the most. It’s my favorite role!

BD:   Is singing all over the world like being the Dutchman?

Welker: [Laughs] Yes. I’m always the Dutchman! It never bores me. I’m more like a vagabond. All the time on the go, and that’s crazy.

See my interviews with Gwyneth Jones, James King, and Kurt Moll

BD: It’s crazy, but you do it...

Welker: I like it! I like my job. I like the surroundings, and this traveling all the time. [Pauses a moment] My job is very nice, but the traveling I don’t like too much.

BD: Muti is an Italian. Did he capture the German spirit of Wagner?

Welker: He’s a very, very good conductor. Muti is for me the best. Muti is the best opera conductor, and Abbado is the best concert conductor. When Muti conducted the Philadelphia Orchestra, and played the overture and my monologue from The Flying Dutchman, I thought I’m crazy! This Italian feels music far better than any others, and is not afraid of showing it! Muti and Abbado make every single note come through. The breathing and the expanse of the music are just great. You can see it in Muti’s eyes! Many people tell me Muti is a difficult man, and he’s not really. He is a music man, and a very nice man, and Abbado is the same. Bartoletti is also an experienced man, and is the same here. Christof Perick [who conducts the recording of Notre Dame shown above] also conducts a lot here in the U.S., and he’s a very, very good man. He is a teacher. There’s never any unexpected change in the speed. Tempo 1, tempo 2, tempo 3, and that’s right. For the German repertoire it has to be correct. In the German repertoire, you must keep going forward. Despite of this form propelling forward, you can sometimes relax, and very few German conductors can do that. Horst Stein is also a very good man. From the pit he can create motivation on the stage. It’s a big joy to work with somebody who can do that.

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BD:   Let’s move on to Telramund. Is that a grateful part to sing?

Welker: Telramund is the biggest of all the German and Italian repertoire. It is also the heaviest part for the singer. Telramund lies high all the time — F, F#, G at the top — and all the time at full power against that big, big orchestra. Oh God, that’s crazy!

BD:   Do you like the character?

Welker: Yes, yes! Telramund is the same character as Macbeth. Ortrud and Lady Macbeth are also the same. It is clear that Macbeth and Telramund are both strong men. They are soldiers.

BD:   Would these characters have been better without their women?

Welker: For certain! The women have very strict outlines and drafts and plans, and the soldiers go by their own rules. It is the women who are the ones who drive them on, though the men don’t want it at all.

BD:   Is that also true in contemporary life?

Welker: For sure! [Much laughter!] The women accept that they are stronger than men. A woman is always stronger than a man. That’s true. I saw that with my wife when my son was born. A man could never withstand the pain of childbirth.

BD:   Is Ortrud evil?

Welker: Yes, yes! Ortrud is a normal woman, though she is a sorceress. She knows she is sending him to his death because she tells him to go and do this deed.

BD:   Earlier, you mentioned Alberich. How evil is he?

Welker: Oh, he’s a lovely man! [Laughs] I first sang him last year in Torino.

BD:   In all three operas — Das Rheingold, Siegfried, and Götterdämmerung?

Welker: No, only Rheingold. I have had no time for the others. I should have sung my first Ring in 1989 in Cologne, and in a new production in Bayreuth in 1988, but I was already scheduled for other performances.

BD:   [Genuinely concerned] Why do you consider Alberich a nice man??? I don’t think of him as nice at all.

Welker: Oh, he’s a nice man, I have to say. ‘Nice’ and ‘evil’ are not the same! At the beginning, he is not evil. He just wants a woman! Only after he has heard the song of the Rhein Maidens, and what the stipulations are, does he then desire the gold.

BD:   He has to renounce love to get the magic power in the gold.

Welker: Yes, then he desires the power.

BD:   Would he have been better off if he had gotten the Rhine Maidens instead of the gold?

Welker: Sure! [Much laughter] Only after he’s gotten an idea about the gold does his character develop out of that. But at the beginning, he’s not an evil man. Wotan and Loge actually contribute to making him more of an evil character, because Wotan wants the ring. Alberich has this very big pain because he’s deformed, and this is the one thing that spurs him on. He thinks he can have them all — Wotan, the Niebelungen, and all the girls — if only he had the ring. So that spurs him on.

BD:   So this is what he would have done if he had been able to keep the ring — just to acquire more and more people?

Welker: Everything. He can have them all. He wants them all. They would have to answer to him, and he would rise to power above all the people who ever suppressed him when he was underneath the Earth.

BD:   Does he want to have any friends?

Welker: Maybe... [Thinks a moment] Maybe he wants friends, but he’s chosen the wrong way. [More laughter]

BD:   Is Hagen more evil than Alberich?

Welker: Yes. Hagen is a criminal! He thinks over what he has to do. He thinks things out, whereas Alberich doesn’t think so much. Everything comes from within. They all want power! Each one wants to be the King of the world!

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BD: Do you feel that opera works well on records?

Welker: Yes, but I think a live performance is better for the singers.
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BD:   There is more emotion?

Welker: Sure.

BD:   Are you optimistic about the future of opera?

Welker: The productions are forever increasingly getting more expensive. Here in America, the seasons have become shorter and shorter. In Germany they play the whole year. At some point, it’s going to be that many more operas will be done in concert.

BD:   You don’t look forward to that?

Welker: No, and I hope I don’t have to sing them! [Laughter]

BD:   Do you adjust your vocal style for different-sized houses?

Welker: No! It is an acoustic question. In a large theater it is a difficult acoustic, and in a small theater, it is the same difficult acoustic. Here in Chicago is not the best acoustic for myself as a singer. The voice travels out very well, but the feeling for myself on the stage is not so good. In Germany, with its sixty-four opera houses, maybe fifty have crazy acoustics! But it’s not a big problem. I sing with my voice whether it is a big or small house. When it’s smaller, perhaps it’s a little bit better. Then the gallery gets more of a punch, and they tend to respond more! [Laughter]

BD:   In your biography, I saw that you also sing Barak [Die Frau Ohne Schatten].

Welker: Yes, I sang Barak at La Scala.

BD:   Is he too good?

Welker: No! He says yes all the time to his wife, that she is right. He is a very strong man. He is a very stable guy with a lot of guts, but his wife wants to make him much more aggressive.

BD:   It’s a good part for you?

Welker: Yes, I like it. The part is more Italian-like [demonstrates with a lyrical phrase]. The whole part is very nice for the singer. It’s very nice to sing for a baritone.

BD:   Do you ever accept any parts that you don’t like singing?

Welker: No! I just say no to them. When I spoke earlier about Abbado and Wozzeck, I said no because I don’t like it. The Zemlinsky [Traumgörge] is a big part, and it’s a very a melodic and tuneful part to sing, but I wouldn’t sing it on the stage. [CD shown at right. See my interview with Janis Martin.] It doesn’t take much work if you can just look at it with the piano, or sing it as a concert version. Zemlinsky is really an exception. He is not so modern. It’s much more difficult to sing Berg than it is to sing Zemlinsky. What I don’t want to do, I won’t do! [Laughter]

BD:   Do you any comic parts?

Welker: In my vocal Fach [category], there aren’t any parts, but it would be interesting to find some. As a Heldenbariton, those parts don’t exist for me. It was very difficult for me to get into the character of Barak.

BD:   Why?

Welker: I don’t know. But Barak and Kurwenal show how I feel because they can cry. Poor Barak... I really had difficulties, and still do because of the character. It is a very, very, very difficult character. If you overplay him too much, then it becomes laughable, and he becomes too much of a hard person. You have to find the middle way in the character, and it’s very difficult. If I play Barak, I have to have an incredible amount of peace for a while.

BD:   Thank you for being a singer!

Welker: My teacher has said that if you have a contract, then you have to fulfill it. There are only a few people who can sing, and you’ve got a gift from God!

BD:   Are you coming back to Chicago?

Welker: I hope so, but I have no time. I hope I’ll come back because I like it here. There are very nice people here, and it’s a very nice company. Ardis Krainik, the General Manager, is a very lovely woman.

See my interviews with Richard Leech, and Lenus Carlson (who sings Comte de Nevers)

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See my interviews with Anna Tomowa-Sintow, and John Mauceri

This conversation was recorded in Chicago on January 20, 1987. Portions were broadcast on WNIB in 1995. This transcription was made in 2024, and posted on this website at that time. My thanks to Ann Vickstrom of Lyric Opera of Chicago for translating. My thanks also to British soprano Una Barry for her help in preparing this website presentation.

To see a full list (with links) of interviews which have been transcribed and posted on this website, click here. To read my thoughts on editing these interviews for print, as well as a few other interesting observations, click here.

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Award - winning broadcaster Bruce Duffie was with WNIB, Classical 97 in Chicago from 1975 until its final moment as a classical station in February of 2001. His interviews have also appeared in various magazines and journals since 1980, and he now continues his broadcast series on WNUR-FM, as well as on Contemporary Classical Internet Radio.

You are invited to visit his website for more information about his work, including selected transcripts of other interviews, plus a full list of his guests. He would also like to call your attention to the photos and information about his grandfather, who was a pioneer in the automotive field more than a century ago. You may also send him E-Mail with comments, questions and suggestions.