Jane Eaglen Interview with Bruce Duffie . . . . . . . . . .

Soprano Jane Eaglen

A Conversation with Bruce Duffie

Jane Eaglen (born 4 April 1960) is an English dramatic soprano particularly known for her interpretations of the works of Richard Wagner and the title roles in Bellini's Norma and Puccini's Turandot. Her career at the Metropolitan Opera started with Brünnhilde in the Ring Cycle. She has performed at all major houses globally such as La Scala, the Metropolitan Opera House and many others. She currently resides in Boston, MA as a voice teacher at the New England Conservatory. She is the President and founder of the Boston Wagner Society. She spends her summers instructing at the Merola opera training program for emerging artists. Every year she judges several voice competitions including the Laffont-Metropolitan Opera National Council Auditions.

Eaglen was born in Lincoln, England, and attended South Park High School there. She started piano lessons at the age of five, continuing until she was sixteen. Her piano teacher then suggested she take singing lessons, and for a year she studied with a local teacher.

After being turned down by the Guildhall School in London, Eaglen auditioned at age eighteen for Joseph Ward, the voice professor at the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester. Ward recognized her potential, and took Eaglen on as a student. Within weeks Ward had directed her toward roles such as Norma and Brünnhilde.

In 1984 she joined the English National Opera, and she spent a couple of years singing the First Lady in Mozart's Die Zauberflöte and Berta, the servant in Rossini's Il barbiere di Siviglia. Other roles included Leonora in Verdi's Il Trovatore. She was also cast as Santuzza in Mascagni's Cavalleria Rusticana.

Eaglen broke into the major opera scene when she was cast as Donna Anna in Mozart's Don Giovanni at the Scottish Opera. She went on to sing Brünnhilde, and the title roles in Tosca and Norma with that company. She made her American debut as Norma in 1994 with the Seattle Opera as a last-minute replacement for Carol Vaness, and followed, two weeks later with Brünnhilde at Opera Pacific, a last-minute replacement for Ealynn Voss. Her first Isolde came in 1998 with the Seattle Opera, a company she has returned to consistently. She repeated the role in 1999 at the Metropolitan Opera and in 2000 in Chicago. Besides the standard repertoire, she sang Helen in the world premiere of Amelia by Daron Aric Hagen at Seattle.

Her work on the concert platform includes performances of Strauss’ Four Last Songs with Daniel Barenboim with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and Gerard Schwarz with the Czech Philharmonic; Strauss' final scene of Salome with Zubin Mehta and the New York Philharmonic, and Richard Hickox and the London Symphony Orchestra; Wagner's Immolation Scene with both Bernard Haitink and Jeffrey Tate and the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and Zubin Mehta and the NY Phil; Verdi's Requiem with Daniele Gatti and the Orchestra of St. Cecilia, Rome; Mahler's Eighth Symphony with Klaus Tennstedt; Nabucco with Riccardo Muti for the Ravenna Festival; Gurrelieder with Claudio Abbado for the Salzburg and Edinburgh Festivals; Die Walküre and Siegfried with James Conlon in Cologne; and many others.

Her recording of Wagner's Tannhäuser with Daniel Barenboim for Teldec earned a Grammy for 'Best Complete Opera'.

Eaglen was named an honorary Doctor of Musical Arts in 2005 by McGill University, Montreal. Formerly a member of the voice faculty at Baldwin-Wallace College and the artistic faculty of the Seattle Opera Young Artists Program, she frequently teaches master classes. In July 2009, Eaglen received an honorary doctorate from Bishop Grosseteste University College Lincoln. She became a Doctor of the University College.

In 2010, Eaglen was named International Fellow in Voice at the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama (RSAMD) in Glasgow, where she will give master classes and recitals. She is a Fellow of the Royal Northern College of Music.

== Names which are links in this box and below refer to my interviews elsewhere on my website. BD

This is a fairly early interview with Eaglen. We met in her apartment at the beginning of 1995, when she was making her first appearances with Lyric Opera of Chicago as Brünnhilde in Siegfried. She would sing that role in the whole Ring the following year conducted by Zubin Mehta, and a few years later in the cycles led by Sir Andrew Davis. Other staged performances with Lyric included Isolde, and La Gioconda.
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At that time, she was just starting to become the sensation for which she is known, so we discussed what she was doing, what she had done, and how those decisions were being made. There was much insight, as well as much laughter.

When we sat down, her computer was on the desk, so that is where we began . . . . .

Bruce Duffie:   When you’re on the computer talking with some anonymous person, do you hunt up someone who likes classical music, or do you stay away from such people?

Jane Eaglen:   It varies. There are classical music bulletin boards, and funny enough, half an hour ago I was just having a look, and I saw a director that I know, Francesca Zambello. She’d done some things in England, and hopefully I’ll be working with her in a few years. So I saw this name, and I thought maybe it might be somebody else using her name, because weird things happen on the computer. So, I typed in, “Is it really you?” and she said, “Yes!” I use an alias, and so she asked, “Who are you?” So, I said, “It’s Jane Eaglen!” “Oh, my goodness! I’m in Copenhagen. Where are you?” “I’m in Chicago.” [Much laughter] So it’s fun. [Photo and brief biography of Zambello is HERE, shown as part of my interview with conductor John DeMain.]

BD:   So, you just tap, tap, tap, and you talk back and forth?

Eaglen:   Yes! Oh, it’s wonderful. It’s great for singers, because you can talk and not use your voice!

BD:   That’s right, that’s right! Well, we use sign language here although that doesn’t work very well on the radio!

Eaglen:   That’s true, that’s true! [More laughter]

BD:   I’m hunting for a new girlfriend these days, so maybe I’ll find someone by tapping...

Eaglen:   I met my boyfriend on it!

BD:   Knowing me, she would be in Paris or someplace else on the other side of the globe.

Eaglen:   Well, it’s difficult. He lives in New York... I said I live in London, but I’m never there. It’s just one of those things.

BD:   Do you like being a wandering minstrel?

Eaglen:   Yes, I do! I’m quite good at adapting to a place when I get there. I quite like traveling around. I’m not very good at being in one place for too long. There are times when you’ve been on the road for so long that it just gets a little bit weary, so then you just wish you were at home just for a little while. But usually, if I can have a couple of weeks at home, then that’s okay. I have got all that sorted, and then off I go again.

BD:   Do you try to make each place you go into your home?

Eaglen:   Definitely! No matter how tired I am, or how jet-lagged, first thing is I always unpack and hide the suitcases. Then it becomes home. It’s very important, actually.

BD:   You’re getting to the point in your career where you’re returning to cities. Without mentioning names, are there certain cities you like to return to?

Eaglen:   Oh sure. There are companies where there’s just a nice feel about them, or it’s the place you particularly like. Also, you tend to make friends wherever you go because of the nature of the business. Everyone is kind of thrown into a place, and nobody necessarily knows anyone else as well, so you do tend to make friends. So it’s always nice to go back and see people again.

BD:   You sing both Brünnhilde and Norma, and beyond that you have really a vast repertoire. From all the roles that you’re offered, how do you decide which ones you’ll accept, and which you’ll turn down?

Eaglen:   I’m trying to condense my repertoire slightly, so some roles that I’ve done I wouldn’t do again. They were good to do at the time for whatever reason... for technique, for experience, or just to try them out. That’s very important, but the most important thing is that I keep all types of music in my repertoire for as long as possible. Although I sing the Wagner and I love it, I’m still very young, and I don’t want to just get type-cast, and pigeon-holed, and pushed to do nothing but that. This is something which sometimes happens because there are not too many people around that sing it. So, I try to keep as much coloratura repertoire in there as well. I’ve had one singing teacher since I was eighteen, Joseph Ward in England, and he’s always said that I must do Donna Anna and Norma to keep the flexibility. Then I will have the control for the Wagner, and I’ve certainly found that to be true. So, I try and keep as much of a balance as I can throughout a season. Norma is bel canto, and everything should be sung in the bel canto style. Even Wagner should be sung that way, so that’s the approach I take to it. It should be sung exactly the same as Italian music.

BD:   As I remember, that’s what Wagner said.

Eaglen:   Absolutely! He loved Norma as a work. He thought it was great, and, in a funny sort of way, you can almost see some similarities, particularly at the end. It’s quite like the Liebestod of Tristan and Isolde, with its growing phrases. You can certainly see that he knew Bellini. But the role of Norma is dramatic coloratura, and it just seems to suit me vocally and dramatically. It’s a role I just love, and I waited for a long time to do it, until I felt it was really right. I’ve done two or three productions of it now, and recorded it last summer with Riccardo Muti [shown farther down on this webpage, where the opera is discussed].

BD:   From the stage or in the studio?

Eaglen:   This was from the stage, in Ravenna, the summer festival there. We’re doing it again in Florence with Muti, and I’m doing it at the Bastille in Paris in a few years. So that’s a role I want to keep, probably there forever if I can! [Laughs] There are other bel canto roles I’d like to do, such as Anna Bolena at some point. The next two things for me are Un Ballo in Maschera, and then Attila. The early Verdi is quite dramatic coloratura, with Nabucco or Lady Macbeth. This is my first venture into that type of Verdi, but it seems to sit right, so I’m looking forward to those.

BD:   You say you’re condensing your repertoire. Are there some roles that you sang which you will never sing again?

Eaglen:   [Thinks a moment] Just off the top of my head, there are things like Fiordiligi, which I’ve done, and I don’t think I’d do that again. I just don’t think that my voice is really what people want to hear in that role. It was okay in a big house, and it worked...

BD:   If it was again offered to you in a big house, with singers who are normally involved in the larger repertoire, would you accept?

Eaglen:   I don’t know. I might consider it. I’m just not sure that it really suits me completely. It’s important to find the roles that you feel suit you vocally, dramatically, and physically in every way, so that you feel completely comfortable, especially if you’re in a position to have a choice. I certainly have felt the most comfortable with certain roles that just somehow seem to fit. They’re diverse roles, and things you wouldn’t necessarily think would go together, but somehow they just work. Every singer and every voice is different, and it’s very hard to categorize. Certainly, when I was younger, people would say that I shouldn’t do this because you did that. But my teacher would always say, “No, that’s right! You’re okay!” I always trust him completely.

BD:   But then you would try each role?

Eaglen:   Oh yes, absolutely, but he’s never been wrong. I was eighteen years old with no voice, really, and he said, “You’ll sing Norma and Brünnhilde,” just like that [as shown in the recording at right]. [Both laugh]

BD:   What did you figure you would sing?

Eaglen:   Well, I don’t come from a family that is into classical music at all, particularly opera. So my knowledge of it was very limited when I first went to college. I only knew a certain amount. The last couple of years I was high school, I kind of knew that was the direction I was going to take, and certainly in my final year I did. So I did a bit of research, but I didn’t know enough about it to choose. So he used to just suggest these roles, and then I went and did bit of research, and thought, “What??? [More laughter] Oh no, this can’t be right!” He had me singing bits of Wagner when I was eighteen. He had me working on bits of Norma, although I had no top at the time. But this was just to know the style. He said, “There’s no point on you working on Susanna, because you’ll never sing it! You might as well start to learn the useful music, even though you haven’t got the notes yet.”

BD:   At what point did you decide you were going to become a professional singer?

Eaglen:   I was seventeen, and in my final year at high school. For a long time, I wanted to be a pianist. I’d been a pianist from the age of about five. I started playing the piano, and had gone through my grades, but I wasn’t good enough. I did not like practicing enough — which is important with the piano! — so, my piano teacher suggested that I take singing lessons. I had done a bit of singing at school and church, and I thought it sounded interesting! So off I went on the bus, 30 miles to the next town where there was a good singing teacher. She said she would teach me for the final year, so every Saturday it was an hour and a half on the bus, then the singing lesson, then an hour and half back. That was it! That was the day gone! [Laughs] But she really started me off well with basic technique, because I knew nothing about it. Some people think that you don’t learn to sing, but you can! I probably even thought that, so we worked hard for a year, and then I got into college at the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester.

BD:   I’m glad that you got into classical, rather than being at a piano bar...

Eaglen:   Absolutely! [Much laughter] But I like the pop and rock now. Actually, that’s what I listen to.

* * * * *

BD:   Your voice dictates what roles you can sing. Do you like the characters that are imposed by that range?

Eaglen:   Yes. That’s the other thing about a role, it has to fit in a funny sort of way. Obviously you’re not playing yourself, but there are certain characters and certain emotions which come to each person more easily, or you just find that they suit you. Certainly Brünnhilde and Norma seem to fit, and I like them.

BD:   No pun intended, but they’re very fiery ladies!

Eaglen:   Oh yes, absolutely! I quite like that! [Gales of laughter] I suppose I have a bit of a temper myself, and I get a chance to show it on stage... but I don’t inflict it on my friends and family.

BD:   [Wiping his brow] Phew! [More laughter] When you walk out on that stage, are you portraying a character, or do you actually become that character?

Eaglen:   There has to be part of your mind which is always in control, because if you become a character, then in you’re in danger of being out of control from a vocal point of view. In order to sing, particularly a role like Norma, which requires basically a secure technique, you can’t be thinking of your technique when you’re doing the role. Your technique has to happen, but at the same time you cannot allow the emotions of the character to destroy that technique. If that happens, it becomes too much adrenaline or just brute force, and that’s when vocal problems start to happen. You always have to remain slightly distant, so that you’re portraying that character and giving it your own emotions and everything that you have, but still maintaining the knowledge that you have certain physical things to do in order to make it work. That involves acting with the voice, which is very important. Actors and actresses obviously can do the same thing to a certain extent, but with the music of a great composer, they wrote emotions through the music, and you should be able to portray them with your voice as well as physically. In opera, you’ve got an added dramatic dimension, that a good singer should be able to use the voice to give something that you could only hint at in a play.

BD:   Then let me ask the ‘Capriccio’ question. Where’s the balance between the music and the drama in opera?

Eaglen:   That’s a difficult one. Some people like one thing, and some people another. There has been a great trend on that which may be just going away slightly, particularly in England, for the producers to be absolutely in charge. What they say is the final word over the music, which I think is wrong. I think the music is the most important, otherwise you may as well just go to a play. I do think that the drama is important, otherwise you might as well go to a concert. So you have to strike a balance between the two. That’s why the drama in the voice is very important, because that’s something you should be able to add in an operatic performance. You emphasize physically as well, and that way you have a complete character. You hear and see the drama in whatever the character is trying to portray at the time. The drama is important, but I have been in situations, or I’ve seen situations, when the music seems to have taken a completely back seat, which I think is terrible! [Laughs]

BD:   Have you done some opera in concert?

Eaglen:   Yes.

BD:   Does that work, especially when you talk about the drama in the voice?

Eaglen:   Yes, I think it does. It’s easier to do a performance of opera in concert if you’ve done it on stage. I’m doing some concert performances of Norma this year. Those will be at the Tivoli Gardens, and also at Carnegie Hall, New York, which will be very interesting. Obviously you can’t move about to a certain extent, but I still think you have to get across what’s happening. That is an instance when you need to keep control of the voice, but you have to show even slightly more with the voice.

BD:   As you work on roles, you’re also doing some concerts. How do you divide your career between opera and concerts?

Eaglen:   I do more opera than concerts, but I do as many concerts as I can. Quite often, it turns out to be operatic bits in concerts. I do the Verdi Requiem, and the Beethoven Ninth, but there’s not too much of that sort of repertoire which suits me particularly. I do the Wagner Wesendonk Lieder, the Strauss Four Last Songs as well, which I enjoy, I must say. [Both of those are included on the recording shown at left.] I’ve done a few recitals, but that’s not my favorite medium.

BD:   I take it you like working with an orchestra?

Eaglen:   I do, really. I prefer singing with an orchestra, and I prefer actually playing a character. I prefer that to standing there and singing a song.

BD:   When you sing the Four Last Songs, do you make it a character, or four characters?

Eaglen:   Not really. You can’t do that in Lieder really, unless it is telling a story, as indeed some of them do. But I would just leave the music to tell the story in that one. The odd Wagner act now seems to be quite a fad. I did Act 3 of Götterdämmerung at Tanglewood and with the Boston Symphony earlier this year, and I’m doing it at the Edinburgh Festival this year also. It is quite interesting to see how that works, and how the audience responds to that as well, because particularly that act is quite dramatic, with the Death of Siegfried, and so on. That comes across in a concert, and seems to work very well.

BD:   Do you adjust your technique at all for the size of the house that you’re singing in?

Eaglen:   No!

BD:   Not a bit?

Eaglen:   No! I’ve been taught never to listen to my voice, because your voice to you sounds very different in different acoustics. You can have a lovely resonant hall, and it sounds completely different in a dead room.

BD:   So, you go by feel?

Eaglen:   Yes, plus sensation, so that a note is almost like on a stringed instrument. The finger goes down on the board at a certain place for a certain note, and in the voice each note goes to a certain place in the body. The resonance is felt in a particular place, and I’ve been taught that you feel the same resonance on the same note. If you feel that physically yourself then you’re doing the right thing, because there can be a tendency to push in what seems like a dead hall. You can think that your voice isn’t sounding, or it’s not as forceful as you’d normally expect it to be, but if you are just feeling the same things, then you just know that it’s the hall. It was hard when I started because that was a new concept. But my teacher said it is really important. I remember doing stage performances of Aïda when I was a student, just before I left college in the Isle of Man, in the most dead theater I’ve ever been in before or since. [Laughs] It was horrendous, and he said, “See, if you can sing there, you can go anywhere,” and he was right!

BD:   It was dead to you on the stage... was it also dead to the audience out front?

Eaglen:   It wasn’t as bad as it seemed, but it was a little bit dull.

BD:   You say you don’t listen to your own voice. I assume though you listen to colleagues?

Eaglen:   Yes. I usually go into the house, if I can, during rehearsals to see how they sound, and where the good spots are on a stage. I compare how different people sound in a rehearsal room to on stage, because that’s the way of telling how the house really is sounding. I then try to find those nice spots, and then go and stand on them to sing.

BD:   Does the whole cast try to gather in those spots?

Eaglen:   Yes. La Scala is famous for its spots. I just did the Walküre Brünnhilde there, but the sets were so confined. There was a rock and that was it. There was nowhere you could go. There’s one spot, but you couldn’t get to it. [Both laugh]

BD:   [With a wink] Bribe the director with a little bit of cash, a few lire, to get him to place you there all the time! [More laughter]
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Eaglen:   Or to move the rock just a bit...

BD:   Do you like the different stage settings and blockings that you’re involved with?

Eaglen:   Yes, usually! When you’ve done a role a lot, you find certain aspects of it that seem to suit you the best, and certain aspects of a character which somehow bring out the role best for you. Every one is different. All great roles can be interpreted in any number of different ways, so it’s important to find what is right for each individual singer. Most directors are very good at that. They try this, and try that, and sometimes they’ll find something that suits you better than the stuff you’ve done before. Sometimes you can say that you feel this is important, and they’ll usually understand that. Obviously, sometimes you’re in a production that you don’t think works, but it’s your job to try and convince everyone else that it does!

BD:   Do you make sure you don’t work with that director again? [Vis-à-vis the recording shown at right, see my interview with Felicity Palmer.]

Eaglen:   Ugh... [Tactfully] Sometimes! [More laughter] Sometimes it might be the piece that didn’t suit that particular director. There are any number of reasons. It’s such a personal thing. It’s the same with conductors. Some are more suited to a certain type of music than others, and some directors are more suited to certain types of drama than others. It’s probably unfair to judge them on one production.

BD:   Of course, some of them have a reputation...

Eaglen:   This is true, yes!

BD:   Are you conscious of the audience that comes each night?

Eaglen:   Yes, I think so. Today I was talking to Graham Clark, who is doing Mime here, and unlike most theaters he’s been in, he says that here at the Lyric, it’s a completely black void past [the conductor] Mehta. You can’t see anything because of the lighting. Sometimes you can actually see faces. I just did Ariadne at ENO [English National Opera]. I used to be on contract with them, and I went back for the first time in years. It was quite fun, and my brother came to one performance. At my first entrance in the Prologue, when I don’t sing, which is just kind fun, I saw him, smiled, and almost carried on! [Both laugh] But yes, I suppose you’re always aware of a sort of mass-presence. Singers always speak about ‘The Audience’. It’s always like a mass of people, and how sometimes it can be completely different. You just get a feeling that they’re really with you some nights, and other nights they’re not quite so much so, but it doesn’t mean that they’re actually enjoying it any less. It’s just a kind of mass-atmosphere that you get.

BD:   Is the audience different from country to country, and city to city?

Eaglen:   Yes, and the way that they approach opera is different from country to country. In England, they’re fairly reserved. It has to do with the national characteristics. England is pretty reserved, while the Italians are pretty crazy about football and opera! This is only the second opera performance I have done in America. I did Norma in Seattle last year, and the audiences there were wonderful and loved it, and from what I’ve seen of concerts I’ve done here, they really love their music, which is great.

BD:   Seattle is a Wagner town. Were they more in your corner because you were a Wagner singer singing Norma?

Eaglen:   I don’t know. It was a strange situation... I came in after they’d been rehearsing for a couple of weeks because Carol Vaness got ill. I was in Austria doing performances of Norma, and had a phone call that asked if I could be there the next day. So, it was all a bit last minute to say the least. [Laughs]

BD:   So, you fly half way around the world...

Eaglen:   ...yes, absolutely. You get on a plane for ten hours and do it in another city! But I had a rehearsal. It was a long rehearsal period, so it wasn’t that I was immediately thrown into performances. But it was a nice place to be, and the company was great. I’m going back there next year to do my first Turandot, so that’ll be nice.

* * * * *

BD: You mentioned the English National Opera. Tell me the joys and sorrows of performing opera in translation.

Eaglen: I first went on contract there when I was 22. It was a great opportunity for me to go straight from college into a principal contract, because it meant I was secure financially. That’s why they did it, so I didn’t have to sing the wrong things too soon. I did Berta in The Barber of Seville, the First Lady in The Magic Flute, and the High Priestess in Aïda, all those kinds of things. I covered, watched, and basically took it easy. I learned my craft through those roles, and by watching other people, which was perfect. Also, at that stage I did some of my first major roles there. I did Trovatore and Elizabeth I in Maria Stuarda as well as Santuzza in Cavalleria Rusticana.

BD:   All of these were in English?

Eaglen:   Yes, also Donna Elvira [Don Giovanni], and Eva in Die Meistersinger. All of these were in English. For the first major roles, in a way it was good because the language was one less thing to worry about. But now I have to say that I do find it very difficult going back doing Ariadne.

BD:   You say you didn’t have to worry about the language, but then didn’t you have to be more careful to enunciate clearly?

Eaglen:   In a way you do, but they’re actually talking about having surtitles there, which seems to me to be kind of weird. But it’s a huge theater. The Coliseum is the biggest theater in London, and I don’t think you can hear the words really well anyway. It’s the same as if you go to Italy. You can’t hear the words, and they say so! I did Norma there with Riccardo Muti this summer, and he said they’ll be gunning for me because I’m the only non-Italian in this cast. Your Italian has got to be better than theirs, because they’ll let them get away with it because they know they’re Italian, and they won’t with me. We worked really, really heard on that, and he was giving notes to the Italians. It’s like every country, and it has its dialects. English is a very difficult language to sing in, actually.

BD:   Too many consonants?

Eaglen:   Too many consonants, too many diphthongs, too many impure vowels, especially where I come from, in the North.

BD:   Is there a special satisfaction knowing that as you sing the words, the audience should at least be able to get many of them?

Eaglen:   I suppose so, although in most things the audiences sort of have done a bit research, and they do know what you’re singing about. There’s just certain things in Wagner. For example, there’s an awful lot of alliteration, which is so important. Just the sound of the words in German or Italian is what makes it so important. As for understanding, it’s just how the words are put with the music. In Brünnhilde’s last page in Die Walküre, every other word starts with the letter Z. I’m quite sure an audience doesn’t know that, but for me it’s important somehow.

BD:   They hear the buzzing sound all the way through?

Eaglen:   Yes, exactly. They’re aware of something similar going on. They’ve asked me if I would do Norma in English, and I’ve asked if they can tell me how to translate ‘Casta Diva’. Then we’ll talk about it, because I can’t imagine it, not just from what the words mean, but the sound of it with that music.

BD:   You’d have to go to Andrew Porter.

Eaglen:   Yes! [Much laughter]

BD:   Then the other side of the coin... Do you like having the supertitles above your head?

Eaglen:   It’s important for the audience to understand, and probably in Wagner it does help a lot, because it’s very wordy. It’s very complicated, and only being in the last scene, I hadn’t seen the whole of Siegfried until the dress rehearsal. I actually found the supertitles quite interesting [laughs] even though I knew what was going on. They’re worthwhile as long as they’re good, which obviously here they’re great. Sometimes if they go wrong, it can be a bit awkward, because you suddenly get a huge laugh from the audience and you’ve no idea why.

BD:   Singers in comic roles often tell me if they get two laughs — one when they read the title, and then another one when they see the stage action.

Eaglen:   Yes, that’s true. I did the First Lady in The Magic Flute at Covent Garden, and they did some performances with surtitles, and some without, so that people could choose. We used to bring the house down with the surtitles, and without them people thought something was funny, but they didn’t really know what it was. They just knew it was supposed to be funny. So the surtitles work, but they have to be done with care.

BD:   As you progress in your career, you’re going to be asked to do more and more. Are you making sure that you have some time for yourself?

Eaglen:   Yes, yes. I’m now really starting to very carefully think of that. At the start, once things really start to happen, it’s quite difficult because often places are asking you for the first time, and you don’t want to say no. I ended up commuting between Milan and London, between Ariadne performances and Die Walküre at La Scala. It was the first time La Scala had asked me, and I wanted to do it. It worked out fine, but I saw too much of planes! This year I’ve taking some time off so I can work on Götterdämmerung, which I’m doing here next year. That’s the other thing. Apart from actual time for myself, there’s also a number of roles which are in my future, which need to be worked on and not rushed. Things like my first Götterdämmerung, my first Isolde and Turandot are works you don’t want to be doing in a couple of weeks. [Laughs] I prefer to learn roles over a long period of time, and digest them, so they become part of you almost without really consciously learning them. It somehow is gradually there. But now particularly, it’s very important every so often to just sit back and take a deep breath, and see my friends and family before they forget who I am! [Much laughter]

BD:   [With a gentle nudge] Find the boyfriend and go off for a holiday!

Eaglen:   Yes, that’ll do. [More laughter]

BD:   Are your friends and family encouraging your career?

Eaglen:   Oh yes, very much so. They thought it was a bit strange when I first said I was going to be an opera singer. It was a very traditional English girls’ grammar school, and at eleven years old, they had you ticked to possibly be Oxford or Cambridge material. Then if you didn’t want to do what they wanted you to do, it was difficult. I didn’t know if it was going to work out, but I just knew that I had to try, and if I hadn’t, I’d have regretted it, and would have been always wondering. If it doesn’t work out, then fine, but I have to try.

BD:   Give it the shot!

Eaglen:   Yes.

* * * * *

BD: Let’s talk about a couple of the roles, and we might as well start with the biggest! Tell me a bit about Brünnhilde.

Eaglen: She’s an interesting girl, and ‘girl’ being the appropriate word. In Die Walküre I think of her as being a child almost. She really is fifteen or sixteen, and naïve, but intelligent and smart. She knows what’s what, but she just is learning. It’s quite interesting that so much of the time in Die Walküre you’re listening to other people. But this is not listening passively, but actively, and learning, and progressing from that.
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BD:   Is she the smartest of the nine Valkyries?

Eaglen:   Oh, I think so, yes, and that’s why she’s Wotan’s favorite daughter.

BD:   Was she the favorite because she was the smartest?

Eaglen:   Yes, that’s definitely right. I suppose there’s no justification for that, but I can’t see it working the other way round. He knows that she can understand what he’s telling her, and can act on it. In Siegfried he says that he knows ultimately that she’s going to be the one who is going to save the whole thing, and put it back full-circle, and take the ring back to the Rhine. He obviously has planned the whole thing, and that’s what being a Valkyrie entails really.

BD:   A speculative question... Supposed Siegfried had not gotten involved with the wrong people. Could Brünnhilde and Siegfried have been happy for a long time? Could she have been content just being a ‘Hausfrau’ or a ‘Cave-Frau’?

Eaglen:   [Thinks a moment] That’s an interesting question. I’m not sure. She clearly is very happy with Siegfried, and very much in love, but I don’t know whether ultimately it would have worked for them. She’s really so smart that I suppose they could have been happy. Maybe they’d have had a family, and a whole new opera would have been written about their children. Maybe it would have gone on to the next generation, and it would have been their children who would have actually saved Valhalla!

BD:   [Being an armchair impresario] The Ring – The Sequel!

Eaglen:   Exactly, or Ring Two! [Much laughter]

BD:   Is she pregnant in Götterdämmerung?

Eaglen:   I’ve never thought of that. I don’t know... I can’t answer that. There are so many facets to her in Götterdämmerung. That’s when it gets complicated for her. She’s quite innocent in a sense, and she really loses her innocence when the curtain comes down on Siegfried. That’s when things change for her. She’s no longer a goddess. She’s a woman, and things are very different, and she sees things very differently.

BD:   In the Prologue of Götterdämmerung, she sends Siegfried out on his journeys and expects him to come home at night?

Eaglen:   Oh yes, because now she’s the little wife, sitting at home... at least for a while!

BD:   That’s why I asked if she could be content that way.

Eaglen:   I wouldn’t personally, but that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t. [More laughter] I shouldn’t impose my own views on her.

BD:   Do you impose her views on you?

Eaglen:   No, not really. I admire her character because she’s strong-minded. She listens, she learns, and then eventually questions Wotan in Die Walküre, saying he can’t mean he wants Siegmund to die! She knows her father is not the man to cross, but she knows that he’s wrong.

BD:   In the end, she does cross him.

Eaglen:   She does, yes.

BD:   Does she think that he will finally understand?

Eaglen:   She knows he’s going to punish her, but she also knows that he knows that she’s right, and he knows that she knows that he knows he’s right. [Both laugh] To start with, she’s quite willing to carry out what he’s asked for, although she doesn’t agree with it. But then when Siegmund also comes up with valid arguments, she doesn’t really need that much convincing because she doesn’t think it’s right anyway. She’s also learning from him about human love relationships, so in that case, he’ll be all right! [Both laugh]

BD:   In the third act, she approaches Sieglinde, and shelters her, and she knows that Sieglinde is going to have Siegfried.

Eaglen:   Yes.

BD:   In the very last scene, when Wotan is putting her on the rock, is she aware that she will wind up with Siegfried?

Eaglen:   Oh, I think so, yes. When she says to Wotan that the great hero is going to come from this race that you have founded, I think she knows. When she wakes up in this production of Siegfried, she doesn’t look at him at all until he says who he is. She realizes it can’t be anybody else. Who else could get through the fire? Who else would have no fear? Who else could it possibly be? Then when she hears him, she feels that everything’s going fine! [Both laugh]

BD:   So, she’s really happy with it right from the start?

Eaglen:   She’s happy that it’s him, but then the implications of being woken up come to her. This is it! She’s not a Valkyrie any more. She’s going to become a woman, and it’s very difficult for her. She’s been this warrior, and now she’s going into womanhood. There’s a time when it’s quite difficult for her to deal with that, but then the whole chemistry thing starts going, and she knows this is going to be all right.

BD:   But then in Act 2 of Götterdämmerung, she gets betrayed, and really becomes quite womanly in her scorn, and wanting vengeance.

Eaglen:   Yes! She’s a spirited lass, as we say, and she wants vengeance. I can live with that! [Both laugh] It is a driving force that I find very interesting, and I can relate to that! [Even more laughter]

* * * * *

BD:   Let us talk about Norma. Tell me about the not-so-vestal, not-so-virgin! [Both laugh]

Eaglen:   There’s a story before this opera opens, which quite clearly could make an opera in itself, about how the Head of the Druids, the Druid Priestess, has been having a long-term affair with the Roman Pro-Consul.

BD:   [Again, being the armchair impresario] Something like a prequel?

Eaglen:   Exactly! [More laughter] They have two children who are certainly not babies, so you can assume that this has been going on for at least five or six years.

BD:   I’ve always been curious as to how she could hide that, especially in her eighth or ninth month each time.
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Eaglen:   Yes. A few flowing robes don’t do any harm, and also she’s a seer, so she could probably quite legitimately say that she was going into a trance of some sort, and was going to go in her house to see the future for a while. It seems that there’s only Clotilde [Norma’s friend] who looks after the children, and who knows about them. So she’s obviously hidden it pretty well. But she’s probably disappeared for a little while here and there. But she wanted to be seen by the general Druid masses very often, so she came out at certain festivals. But the rest of the time they didn’t see her. It’s not like they saw her every day. That’s certainly one interpretation on it. The whole twenty minutes before she comes out, all anyone talks about is Norma’s going to appear soon, so it’s a big event. If it happened every day it wouldn’t be quite so emphasized.

BD:   Is Norma really a very special person?

Eaglen:   I think so, yes. She’s very hurt and upset, and probably not still in love with Pollione, but she is angry about what’s happened, and determined to get her revenge on him for what he’s put her through. I actually don’t believe she still loves him at the time of the opera. What makes her special is the fact that she’s a great woman, and when it comes to the crunch, she cannot allow someone else to take the blame for something that she has done. You can make her as nasty as you like, but at that moment when she says, “It’s me,” that’s when her real character comes through, and you can see she’s a great person. She’s not going to allow anyone else to take the rap.

BD:   But she also doesn’t want anybody else to take Pollione? [Vis-à-vis the recording shown at left, see my interview with Eva Mei.]

Eaglen:   He decides he’s going to come with her. I don’t think she loves him, but I don’t think she wants anyone else to have him.

BD:   She was perfectly willing to have Adalgisa to go off with someone, until she found out that it was Pollione?

Eaglen:   Yes. She sees in Adalgisa a reflection of herself. She’s at that same age, and it’s exactly what’s happening when she describes how Pollione came to her. Norma says she remembers . It’s almost like he’s done exactly the same thing, which, of course, makes it even worse. It’s like a man proposing to his second wife in the same restaurant that he proposed to his first. That wouldn’t go down very well! [Laughs]

BD:   Is Adalgisa pregnant when she comes around to Norma, and wants to run off with Pollione?

Eaglen:   She could be. There’s no evidence for that, but it’s possible. It’s equally possible that Norma and Pollione had a relationship for some time before they actually had the children. A lot of that is conjecture, and it’s helpful, from a performance point of view, to have some idea of what you think what might have happened because it makes a complete character.

BD:   [Wryly] She must not have been a wonderful seer, or she could have said, “No, not tonight. We’ll do it next week.”

Eaglen:   [Laughs] Yes, it’s strange. She’s obviously very intelligent, and I’m sure she is a seer, and she uses that sometimes, because she says, “No, now is not the time to attack the Romans. I can see that it is not the time.” But what she’s really thinking is, “No, because I don’t want Pollione to be killed by all these raving loonies.”

BD:   So really, she’s very manipulative all the way through?

Eaglen:   She can be. She’s been brought up in this position all her life. It’s all she’s ever known, and she just knows that she’s in charge, and she has this ability as a seer. But she can use that sometimes if she thinks wisely, not rashly. If she wisely thinks that this isn’t the way her people should be going, she can tell them it’s because she’s seen this rather than she thinks this, and that’s what they would believe.

BD:   They would have followed her anywhere?

Eaglen:   I think so, yes, absolutely. It’s a terrible, terrible shock for them all, because they have just worshiped this goddess-type person that they hardly ever see, and when they do, she says wonderful things to them.

BD:   Then why could she not have just kept the kids off to the side for years and years, and continued to be their leader for a long time until she became an old lady?

Eaglen:   She could have done so if Adalgisa hadn’t met Pollione, and was about to run off with him, or if she hadn’t found out about this whole thing, and if it hadn’t become so upsetting for her. Then she could have done her job. But at one point she thinks she will tell them it was Adalgisa. But when it comes to the crunch, she can’t, and that’s what makes her a great person. At least that’s what I think, but there are a lot of ways of playing the role. It’s quite interesting to try and play this public person against the private person, so that there is this mysterious woman who speaks to the people. But then there’s the woman at home with her children, the wronged wife who stands there and sees this ‘husband’, certainly the father of her children in front of her, saying to this young girl that he doesn’t want her! He wants you! It’s pretty major stuff.

BD:   Is it possible to over-analyze some of these things?

Eaglen:   Oh yes, definitely! [Laughs] At the end of the day, what’s important is what’s on the page, what the text says, and what emotions you get from the music. That’s it! What happened before, or after, or what’s she thinking, or what she had for breakfast is really irrelevant. Some directors will tell you that’s not the case, and there’s a certain amount to be gained from having an idea yourself beforehand by doing a bit of research, or at least thinking through the character. But then all you can do when you come to a performance is just play the character as it happens. The director I first did Norma with was wonderful, Ian Judge. He pointed out to me that sometimes you forget that you don’t know what’s going to happen next as a performer. You’ve no idea what’s happening on the next page. Too often you know her so well, or it becomes so stock that you forget to live each moment on stage as it happens. That’s very important, and that’s obviously something which is an immediate thing. So if you analyze that, you’re lost. [Both laugh]

BD:   Should Norma be done in two pieces or four?

Eaglen:   I prefer it in two. I’ve only ever done it that way, with scene changes, but not with a break. It moves, and the momentum goes better that way.

* * * * *

BD: You mentioned that you shouldn’t know what happens in the next scene. In this production of Walküre, when Wotan shoos off all of the others, there’s one Valkyrie left behind. Waltraute is the last one to leave, and she is somewhat reluctant. She stays around just a little bit when the other seven are gone. [Two operas later, she has a large scene with Brünnhilde in Götterdämmerung.]
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Eaglen:   Oh, interesting! It’s good to kind of build up to that, because obviously there’s a question of why it is Waltraute, of all the others, who comes back. Probably it’s her closest sister, but it’s nice to try to build that up.

BD:   Is it especially important to have the same woman play Brünnhilde in all three of the Ring operas?

Eaglen:   I think so. It’s a continuing story. If you’re going to see the whole cycle in a week, then it should be the same person playing the characters. But for any number of reasons, it’s not always possible. Brünnhildes go to sleep in one position, in one frock as Valkyries, and wake up in another position in another frock in Siegfried, which I find pretty weird, but it happens.

BD:   Maybe she was slightly somnambulous...

Eaglen:   [Laughs] Maybe. I like to think that someone comes every couple of weeks, and gives her a blanket-bath, and changes her frock... [More laughter]

BD:   To make her presentable for whenever she is awakened?

Eaglen:   Yes. We know she’s going to get woken up at some time, and she’s not going want to look a mess! [Still more laughter]

BD:   I don’t know... I find a woman looks best when she’s a bit disheveled...

Eaglen:   Quite, yes! I suppose at the end of Siegfried there’s good reason for her being agitated, but at that point she has to look pristine. [Laughter continues, after which both regain some composure]

BD:   What other roles are among your favorites, or which ones have you done quite often?

Eaglen:   I’ve done a lot of Donna Annas. [Two of her arias are on the CD shown at left.]

BD:   There’s another vengeful woman!

Eaglen:   Yes, yes, absolutely, and a little bit crazy as well by the end of it. She’s always fun. That’s a role that I’m going to try and keep doing as often as possible, because, from a technical point of view, it’s like castor oil for the voice. If you have the control for that, then everything is going fine. It’s not just the coloratura, but it’s the high, quiet singing, and the ensembles. It’s hard, but I enjoy that. I’m making my Met debut doing that next year, so it crops up from time to time. I also enjoy doing Tosca. I like her. She’s another vengeful woman. [Much laughter] Sopranos in opera tend to be either a little bit weak and ‘girlie’, or vengeful, or very strong women, and I much prefer those, I must say. That does make a good story! [Both laugh] I’ve done Un Ballo in Maschera, but not for a long time. I did enjoy that the first time I did it, so I’m looking forward to reprising it this year. It’s hard to say... in a funny sort of way, you enjoy what it is you’re doing at the time, because all your energies go into that, and you do everything you can to try and make it work. That’s very often the case, and it’s how it should be, really. Even if you’re in a production that you don’t like, by the time you’ve started rehearsals and done it, you’re completely convinced by it, because it’s your job to do that! You have to convince the audience that this is the only possible way it could be done, and that’s important.

BD:   I assume you can’t convince them unless you’re convinced yourself.

Eaglen:   Exactly, so you have to give it your best shot. Then, maybe when it’s over, you think you really didn’t work this, this, or this, but at the time you absolutely thought it was the greatest thing you’d ever been in. I certainly find whatever I’m working on — most of the time, with one or two exceptions — that’s the case. Musically, I think I’d be quite happy to spend my life singing Brünnhildes and Normas. I just adore the music for both of them so much.

BD:   Shades of Lilli Lehmann (1848-1929).

Eaglen:   Yes, she was famous for those roles! I’m looking forward to doing my first Isolde, which will be in a couple of years. The music for that is just sublime. But I’d also like to do some more Verdi, and I’m looking forward to Turandot. There’s also some Rossini I’d like to do, such as Semiramide, and the bel canto roles. Those operas aren’t done that often. That’s the trouble, but certainly I’d like to do that stuff, and keep it as varied as possible, not just because it’s interesting to do different roles, but it’s healthy from a vocal point of view. That’s very important.

BD:   [We then stopped for a moment so she could record a station-break, and she noted that she was almost 35...] Are you at the point in your career that you expect to be, and want to be at this age?

Eaglen:   [Thinks a moment] I didn’t think I’d be singing Brünnhilde yet, I have to say... not because I didn’t think I would, but because other people didn’t, in a funny sort of way. Birgit Nilsson was 38 or 39 when she first sang it. I didn’t give it any great thought, but people have always said to me that I’m very young to be doing this or that, and so on. But again, you just can’t generalize. If it feels right, and everything is going right, then that’s the time to do it. I would hope to be singing these roles in ten years or so, and it’ll be different because I’ll be older, and the voice will be different. Technically I’ll be doing the same thing, but it’ll just be different because of the way the voice matures.

BD:   Plus, you’ll have that much more experience in life.

Eaglen:   Yes, exactly! But in a way, it’s quite nice to have a naïve Brünnhilde, particularly in Walküre when she is young, and is quite child-like. I find that quite fun. [Laughs]

BD:   The women you seem to play are mostly strong, rather than the fragile Violetta-type.

Eaglen:   [With a smile] Well, that’s not me! I’m a big girl, and vocally they don’t suit me particularly well. I’m not a Violetta. But they also don’t suit me mentally, and that’s important. You have to act. You don’t always play your own characters, but I’m a pretty strong person, and to be playing some sort of weak insipid girlie character just doesn’t work. It doesn’t ring true, and no matter how simpering you try to be, it just doesn’t come across.

BD:   Is there any character that you play that’s perilously close to the real you?
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Eaglen:   Ooooo! [Laughs] Most operatic characters go a bit extreme in whatever situations they are. I’m a pretty easy-going sort of person, really. I try and not let the pressures of life get to me, although, of course, sometimes they do, as they do with everybody. It’s a fairly pressurized life, and things are going very nicely at the moment. So, one wants to keep that going, and keep the standards up. That’s the important thing. The bottom line for me is to just make sure that I keep singing well, and stay fit and healthy, and work on the voice. But I’m pretty good at taking a step back from it, and relaxing, and doing other things. Getting my mind away from it is important for me, so that when it comes to it, I’m a hundred percent concentration-focused. It’s not something I can live with twenty-four hours a day, because then how can you possibly put all the extra energy into it if you’re giving energy to what you do twenty-four hours a day? You can’t do it! I have a temper, which I don’t think I lose very often these days. I’m a strong person, and strong-minded. I have opinions about things, and I suppose that’s why I prefer to play those sorts of characters, and would stay away from the others. Eva and Elsa of the Wagner repertoire I don’t really think are me for that reason.

BD:   So, you won’t tackle them? [Vis-à-vis the recording shown at right, see my interviews with Jan-Hendrik Rootering, and Riccardo Chailly.]

Eaglen:   Well, I’ve done Eva. She’s a silly girl, really! But those two are really for more lyric voices than mine, anyway.

BD:   Might you do Ortrud?

Eaglen:   I’m not sure. It might be a bit low, but it’s possible.

BD:   Ask Eva Marton [who was singing some of the performances] about that, as she likes the part.

Eaglen:   Yes, absolutely. I don’t know it well enough really, but certainly the Eva I wouldn’t want to do again.   It’s not good for me to do roles which vocally I feel I have to step back from. I like to be able to use my voice. It’s not singing loud all the time, but it’s not feeling restricted vocally. When I was doing the Eva, I was always being told it’s too loud! I was saying this is my mezzo-forte, so what do you want me to do about this? It’s not so much that it’s loud, it’s just the way the voice is, and if you feel that you have to hold back, and get tense, it’s very bad for you vocally... apart from it not being right for the role.

BD:   I’m glad the voice has a good focus too it.

Eaglen:   That’s important, and that’s what carries it.

BD:   [I noted the Norma recording, and asked if there were any others]

Eaglen:   Just recently there’s a recording of a piece called Medea in Corinto by Simone Mayr [shown below], which had never been recorded before. Opera Rara brought it out. They do these unheard-of pieces. It’s a great work, actually. There’s some really good music in it, almost sort of ‘Norma-esque’, but lovely music. Recordings are often the last thing that happens in a career, so it’s just starting for me. [She has, of course, made several others since this interview took place, and some are shown on this webpage.]

BD:   I’m glad things are working for you, and I wish you lots of continued success.

Eaglen:   Thank you.

BD:   I’m glad to know that you’ll be coming back to Chicago!

Eaglen:   Yes, I’m looking forward to it already! I want the same apartment because I love the view!

See my interview with James Levine

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See my interview with Thomas Hampson

This conversation was recorded in Eaglen's apartment in Chicago on January 26, 1995. Portions were broadcast on WNIB two days later, and again that fall, and in 1998 and 2000. This transcription was made in 2024, and posted on this website at that time. My thanks to British soprano Una Barry for her help in preparing this website presentation.

To see a full list (with links) of interviews which have been transcribed and posted on this website, click here. To read my thoughts on editing these interviews for print, as well as a few other interesting observations, click here.

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Award - winning broadcaster Bruce Duffie was with WNIB, Classical 97 in Chicago from 1975 until its final moment as a classical station in February of 2001. His interviews have also appeared in various magazines and journals since 1980, and he now continues his broadcast series on WNUR-FM, as well as on Contemporary Classical Internet Radio.

You are invited to visit his website for more information about his work, including selected transcripts of other interviews, plus a full list of his guests. He would also like to call your attention to the photos and information about his grandfather, who was a pioneer in the automotive field more than a century ago. You may also send him E-Mail with comments, questions and suggestions.