Piero de Palma Interview with Bruce Duffie . . . . . . . . .

Comprimario Tenor Piero De Palma

A Conversation with Bruce Duffie

Piero De Palma (31 August 1925 – 5 April 2013) was an Italian operatic tenor, particularly associated with comprimario roles.

After choral and concert work, he began his operatic repertoire career in 1948 by singing on Italian radio (RAI). He made his stage debut in 1952 at the Teatro di San Carlo in Naples, where he performed regularly until 1980. The same year saw his debuts at the Rome Opera and the Maggio Musicale Fiorentino. He then went on singing throughout Italy, appearing in Genoa, Palermo, Catania, Trieste, and Bergamo. He also appeared at the Baths of Caracalla and the Verona Arena, and made his debut at La Scala in Milan in 1958. He performed for numerous seasons regularly at The Dallas Opera, and made his Metropolitan Opera debut as Dr. Cajus in Falstaff in 1992.

He made a specialty of character roles, and became perhaps the finest and most famous of all postwar comprimario artists. He possessed a fine voice and was an outstanding actor. He sang an estimated 200 roles throughout his career, among his most famous were Dr. Cajus in Falstaff and Pong in Turandot. Other notable roles included Basilio, Normanno, Malcolm, Borsa, Gastone, Cassio, Spoletta, Edmondo, Goro, and Spalanzani. He sings on over 130 opera recordings from the 1950s to the 1980s, including multiple recordings of operas in different roles, e.g., Pong, Pang, and the Emperor, in various recordings of Turandot.

He sang with Lyric Opera of Chicago during three seasons: 1961 Lucia (Opening Night with Sutherland), Andrea Chénier (with Vickers), Mefistofele (with Christoff), and La Forza del Destino (with Bergonzi); 1965 Mefistofele (Opening Night with Ghiaurov), Simon Boccanegra (with Gobbi), and Madama Butterfly (with Scotto); and 1992 Turandot (with Marton).

== Names which are links in this box and below refer to my interviews elsewhere on my website. BD

During his final visit to Chicago in early 1992, I had the distinct pleasure of spending a few minutes with the versatile artist Piero De Palma. Portions of the interview were used on WNIB, Classical 97, and now [2024] I am pleased to present the entire conversation.

My thanks to Marina Vecci of Lyric Opera for translating.

Bruce Duffie:   Tell me the joys and sorrows of the being a comprimario singer.

Piero De Palma:   More joys than sorrows. Always joys, especially if the comprimario is done at a very high level. Modestly, I’ve always done it in big theaters with major artists, major stage directors, and major conductors.

BD:   Are there some roles that are better suited for your particular voice than others that you have to sing regularly?

De Palma:   A term which was used at one time but is not in vogue anymore is ‘utility comprimario’. So I’ve always done all of them. I’m the one who can do the Messenger in Aïda, and Cassio in Otello [shown in photo above], whereas some of my colleagues can only do one and not the other. In fact, there are many roles which cannot be called ‘comprimario’, because they are very important, and are not exactly comprimario. They are what was once termed ‘utility’, or second tenor roles. For instance, in Zandonai’s Francesca da Rimini, there is Malatestino, which is a wonderful big role, or in Puccini’s La Rondine, the role of Prunier, the poet, is a very big role. I do all of those, but, of course, they always are listed after the big major lead tenor role. There is a beautiful recording of La Rondine which is an opera I love a lot [shown at right]. It is with Anna Moffo, Daniele Barioni, Graziella Sciutti, Mario Sereni, and Francesco Molinari-Pradelli conducting.

BD: Speaking of recordings, do you sing the same in the opera house as you do for the microphone?

De Palma:   It is the same thing, more or less. In the theater, one can give more expressivity because there are props, and scenery, and clothes that are different, but generally the character of the role is the same. One has to do it whether it’s a record or in the theater. For those who listen, the audience must understand what the role is, whether it’s through the record or in the theater.

BD:   Where is the balance between the singing and the drama?

De Palma:   It has to do with the way you are involved in the role. It is a bit difficult for me to generalize because I’ve done so many roles, and each of them has a different point of balance between the two.

BD:   Do you look for that point of balance?

De Palma:   Yes, certainly. According to the role that I’m doing, I look for that point of balance between the two things.

BD:   Do you only sing opera, or do you also sing some concerts?

De Palma:   Mostly opera, and perhaps sometimes concert versions of opera. But I’ve done very few of the classic concerts.

BD:   Old works and new works?

De Palma:   I’ve done everything! In the past few years I’ve done more traditional operas, but when I was younger, I did everything, even some leading roles in La bohème and Gianni Schicchi [shown below]. I have in my repertoire about 150 roles between traditional classical works and contemporary or modern operas.

BD:   Are there some world premieres?

De Palma:   I have done very few. I did Renzo Rossellini’s La Guerra and Il Vortice, and at La Scala I did Dr. Faust in Busoni’s opera. That was not a world premiere, but probably the La Scala premiere. [A photo and playbill of two ‘newer’ operas are shown at the bottom of this webpage.]

BD:   Are there operas being written today which can take their place along side the masters of yesterday?

De Palma:   I would much rather not go into that, because it’s not something that I feel comfortable talking about. I don’t think that there are many operas today that can take their place, not because I don’t like modern music, but because the modern music is for a certain audience. Contemporary music is done for a very, very small part of the audience. Music must get to the heart, and if it doesn’t get to the heart, it’s not music to my way of thinking. If one studies composition, and you put one chord and another in a combination, of course it’s music. But if it doesn’t reach your heart, it’s not music. People like Luigi Nono or Luciano Berio are the optimal among musicians, but I don’t think that they will become as the great musicians of the past because their music doesn’t reach the heart.
de palma

BD:   What advice do you have for someone who wants to write an opera today?

De Palma:   It’s very difficult to write one because everything has been written. Every possible combination in opera has been written. People are going to the opera and seeing something that uplifts, that pleases, that is really engaging for the audience. For instance, if we’re talking about Stravinsky’s The Rake’s Progress, I’ve liked that, but that is real music. It’s really beautiful modern music.

BD:   Are you saying that opera is dead???

De Palma:   [Smiles] No, of course not. It’s not dead because we can go on redoing the operas that have been done all the time. For instance, Bellini’s Norma is over 150 years old, and Turandot is about 70 years old now.

BD:   Is that why Turandot lasts, because it sounds like it’s an old piece?

De Palma:   No, no. It’s always fresher and more modern than any other opera. Different ways of interpreting the operas are going to be seen more and more, because of the lack of singers who can really do what is on the pages in the way they were written. There’s no telling what’s going to happen in the way of interpreting or singing some traditional operas, but the traditional repertoire operas will go on. We will always have traditional operas, provided that we have good singers. But I think we will always have good singers, so operas will go on.

BD:   Are we getting a good crop of new singers coming along?

De Palma:   [Sighs] For the time being, not really very many. This is a transitional time. I don’t see many great singers on the horizon. You always have to go back to Pavarotti and Domingo in the way of tenors. There are very few of those great singers, whereas ten or fifteen or twenty years ago you had more. We have had some singers, but no one is coming up at the same level of Domingo or Pavarotti.

BD:   What advice do you have for singers on the first level, or on the comprimario level?

De Palma:   To always study, and to study well, and to be lucky enough to meet teachers who understand the qualities of both a lead singer or a comprimario singer, and then develop that. For instance, the young American singer must study Italian, because Italian opera is different. This is the advice that I would give to people who are studying singing right now.

BD:   Language and style?

De Palma:   Style follows the language. If one knows the language, style will come. It is very important to develop the language because it helps very much with the singing. I don’t know how people can sing in Italian without knowing the language. They sing it very well, but how can they do it without knowing the language? My colleagues that are American singers, sing Italian very well, but do not speak it Italian at all.

BD:   So, it should be more than just phonetics?

De Palma:   The style and the phonetics are less important than the study of the language per se, and everything else will follow if you start studying the language. If you know what things mean, you will know how to say them properly.

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BD:   You touched on this earlier... do you like where the new stage directors are going?

De Palma:   Yes and no, more no than yes, because sometimes they really change the sense of operas. Operas are written for a certain time and period and style, and when they change everything it hurts the works. I remember a Rigoletto which was done in Italy, and it changed the period of the piece. It was very much criticized. Nowadays, the viewing of operas is based a lot more on the stage direction than it is on singing and the music. They pay more attention to that, it seems. In fact, most articles tend to be all about the staging and the production, and then at the end you’ll find a paragraph about the tenor.

BD:   [Musing] By the way, so-and-so sang the big roles! [Laughter]

De Palma:   Yes! Perhaps the reason is because we don’t have singers like Franco Corelli, Mario Del Monaco, Giuseppe Di Stefano, Gianni Poggi, and many others. We give our attention to the production values.

BD:   Despite all this, are you optimistic about the future of opera?

De Palma:   Yes, because it is a natural thing. Sooner or later, opera will bear fruit even if we have no singers.

BD:   Is singing, fun?

De Palma:   Yes, singing is fun! I have fun when I’m well. If I don’t feel well, or if something is wrong, then I have a tough time with singing.

BD:   I hope you usually feel well!

De Palma:   Yes, but of course it happens, and when it happens, it seems like the whole world is coming apart.

BD:   Are there any roles that you’ve sung a lot more than some of the others?

De Palma:   Yes, Turandot, Falstaff, Madama Butterfly, Tosca, and Carmen.

BD:   Tell me about Goro, the matchmaker in Butterfly [shown at right].

De Palma:   He is a beautiful character, and a very amusing character. There are various ways as to how we understand the character of Goro. I’ve seen it played in many different ways, and I prefer the traditional way. Goro is basically your marriage broker, and it’s sort of an ambiguous character. You can do it in a more modern fashion, or in a more traditional way, but the important thing is that you reveal his character of being the marriage broker, the pimp in a sense.

BD:   If he is an ambiguous character, do you play it to be ambiguous, or do you play it in a singular style?

De Palma:   It is simple, and this character is clearly written. In the end, the view inside the character has to be expressed. There are all these facets of this character that need to be expressed in the singing. You can’t just sing it straight, as if it were just a beautiful tune. You have to sing it with expression to indicate, or to show the oiliness of the character and what he does for a living.

BD:   Is there generally more characterization put into comprimario roles than in leading roles?

De Palma:   There is more in the comprimario roles than in the leading tenor roles, where all you have to do is stand there and just sing! [Much laughter]

BD:   I take it that you like to do more than just stand and sing?

De Palma:   I like what I do, and the way that I sing, and the way I do the comprimario roles.

BD:   Thank you for bringing life to these many roles for so many years.

De Palma:   I continue going on and taking others roles. I’ve already got a contract for the Metropolitan for Falstaff, and I can’t say no! I feel compelled to go on, and I continue to go on.

BD:   How do you decide which roles you’ll take on, and which engagements you will accept, and which you will turn down?

De Palma:   Usually, I do most of the roles that I am asked to do that are in my repertoire. Very rarely do I say no to some roles. There are some roles that I like better than others, but I do most of the comprimario roles that are in my repertoire.

BD:   If you accepted all of them, wouldn’t you be singing 600 nights a year?

De Palma:   [Laughs] Of course, I can’t do 600! There have been times at La Scala where I was singing every other day, but even so, I wouldn’t be able to sing every day of the year.

BD:   Would you if you could?

De Palma:   No, no, no. I have to get some rest every once in a while! It would be wonderful from a financial point of view, but I just couldn’t do that. It’s not good to do that.

* * * * *

BD:   Do you like this new gimmick of the supertitles?

De Palma:   I’ve never seen it [so he speculates that probably they’re just giving a summary of what happens on the stage.] I feel that they distract a bit from the action.

BD:   You don’t feel that there’s a closer communication? For instance, an American audience would be getting more of what you do, as opposed to an Italian audience that understands every word?

De Palma:   Yes, on one side it is true that there is more communication with the audience, but I don’t like the audience having to look up and look down all the time. It might be difficult at times to be able to listen and to look up like that all the time. But it’s being done in many, many theaters all over the world, and it works, so I guess it must be a good thing. Perhaps since I know the operas, I don’t quite see the necessity of them! [Laughs] It should be the minimum possible number of words for the minimum possible amount of distraction in order for it to be effective.

BD:   Are the audiences different from La Scala to Chicago?

De Palma:   Audiences tend to be all the same. If it is a good show, they applaud. If it’s not a good show, they don’t. There are, of course, some people who are more inclined to go for the soprano, or for the one singer over another, but more or less, the audiences are the same.

BD:   Is that good?

De Palma:   I feel that the audience should be able to protest a show that they don’t like if they feel so inclined. It’s just that the audiences here in Chicago are probably just kinder. If there’s something that doesn’t go well, they won’t do anything drastic, whereas at La Scala they would loudly protest.

BD:   Should the audience loudly protest?

De Palma:   Yes, I feel that they should! They should be vocal about their likings or dislikings. Sometimes in Italy, the audience makes live protestations over things that they’ve not objectively judged, but just sort of like or dislike. Or, if they have prejudged liking or disliking, that I don’t approve of. But in general, I feel that the audience should be able to judge, and express their judgment of singers. If someone who is unknown arrives, perhaps the audience might remain a little bit cold instead of giving a warmer applause.

BD:   Are you coming back to Chicago?

De Palma:   I don’t think so in the near future, because the program for next season does not have anything for me. But at a certain point, I am planning to retire. I am always saying that I’m retiring, but then I never retire, so one of these days I will! But on the other hand, if I feel well, I will go on for some more, and as long as my wife comes with me, I’m planning to go on while I feel good.

BD:   Let me selfishly say I hope you go on singing for a long time.

De Palma:   Let’s hope so, as long as I stay well!

BD:   Thank you for this conversation.

De Palma:   Don’t mention it! [With a big smile] Thanks to Marina!

This conversation was recorded in Chicago on January 31, 1992. Portions were broadcast on WNIB in 1998. This transcription was made in 2024, and posted on this website at that time. My thanks to Marina Vecci of Lyric Opera for translating, and to British soprano Una Barry for her help in preparing this website presentation.

To see a full list (with links) of interviews which have been transcribed and posted on this website, click here. To read my thoughts on editing these interviews for print, as well as a few other interesting observations, click here.

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Award - winning broadcaster Bruce Duffie was with WNIB, Classical 97 in Chicago from 1975 until its final moment as a classical station in February of 2001. His interviews have also appeared in various magazines and journals since 1980, and he now continues his broadcast series on WNUR-FM, as well as on Contemporary Classical Internet Radio.

You are invited to visit his website for more information about his work, including selected transcripts of other interviews, plus a full list of his guests. He would also like to call your attention to the photos and information about his grandfather, who was a pioneer in the automotive field more than a century ago. You may also send him E-Mail with comments, questions and suggestions.